That was for rey, not u Reply...

Correct about what? I must have missed something or am just too tired... Nite! Reply...

You do not speak for all police.  Im sure some officers have had run ins with some whacked out crazy demented lunatice freak that they were quietly hoping they would never see again.  Which is what these people that commit these acts of violence are.  It is not your right to decide which profession is honorable and which is filth.  Unless of course your god, it does sound like you migh believe that.  Attitudes like that is the fundamental flaw of overly religious people.  We are right, thats it, get in line or go straight to hell. Reply...

No, police officers are not afraid.....we've been listed in the phone book forever and we are not afraid. The deal is that we don't like John Q Public to know who we are because then the whining starts...'oh I got this ticket and I got that ticket'. Cry me a river...and slow down so you don't get a ticket you crybabies.  Now judges are a whole different story. I wouldn't want anybody to know where I lived either if I had just sentenced them or their family member. Plus most judges aren't armed or have weapons in their homes, much less be trained to use them. We are, we do and we are again. Reply...

A Catholic nun who was out for an early-morning prayer walk on the A Canal bike path Sunday was raped and beaten to death, and a man who was traveling through the area has been accused of murdering her. A second nun who was assaulted was treated and released following the incident that occurred behind Kiger Stadium. Authorities said Sister Helen Chaska, 53, Bellevue, Washington, was reciting the Rosary while walking on the bike path about 2 a.m. Sunday when she was attacked and killed. Chaska and Sister Linda Schoenhoefn, 52, were in Klamath Falls conducting mission work. Authorities said both women were raped by the attacker. Schoenhoefn was treated at Merle West Medical Center and released. The women had been staying at the Best Western at 4061 South Sixth Street, an employee with the motel said. The suspect was identified as Maximiliano Cilerio Esparza, 32, address unknown. Authorities said Esparza was traveling through the area, and was staying at the Cimarron Motor Inn. “We received a tip from a citizen who saw this guy riding his bike around and matched the description of the suspect,” Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb said. “We then questioned this guy and decided to make the arrest.” When officers approached Esparza, he was cooperative and agreed to go to the Klamath Falls Police Department for an interview, Deputy District Attorney Mike Swanson said. The interview was conducted by a Spanish-speaking Oregon State Police officer. After several hours of interviewing, Esparza was arrested without incident. Esparza was charged with murder, aggravated murder, attempted murder, first-degree assault, first-degree rape, second-degree assault, first-degree sexual abuse, first-degree sodomy, first-degree kidnapping and possession and delivery of a controlled substance. He is being held without bail So Does This Prove Me Correct Reply...

They are not located in hospitals for the same reasons listed above.  Fear for the safety of their employees.  Reply...

Well  you didnt really answer the question. You have one personal experience that you believe validates your argument.  Your example could also be sheer coincedence.  What if I were to have an example(whitch could also be just sheer coincedence) that validifies my argument, I know what you would do, you would just shrugg it off and tow the line.  Thats fine, nothing wrong with that, like you said we will agree to disagree.

Why dont you find Doctors that perform abortions listed next to other doctors.  You sound like a smart person.  You sound like a person that should know the answer to this question as the answer is in our previous posts.  It is because of people on your side of the issue, not you yourself but then again not really that far from you.  Its fear, terrorism, threats, bombs and assualt just to name a few.  You are passionate about your stance and I respect that.  But when you pass passion and move on to violence, thats not good.  Its the same reason many police officers, judges, teachers and numerous other people dont list their name.  THEY ARE AFFRAID.  They are affraid of the possibility that someone may come after them for arresting them, putting them in jail or giving them a failing grade.  Only the fringe of your side isnt afraid to kill under the veil of religion.  Religion for you is what you percieve as you ace in the hole. But it only works if your arguing somebody with the same beliefs.These people are no different then Hamas claiming islam gives them the right to kill infidels.  You yourself cant argue they dont anymore then I can gain way in our debate.  If religion is taken out of the picture, the debate is almost sure to be over.

Reply...

I strongly agree Marilyn.

Reply...

Too bad more people don't understand the reality of abortions - there would be quite a few less of them. It's a sad event,  but each woman and doctor has to make their own decision on whether to be involved in an abortion or not. They have to live with that decision for the rest of their lives. My childhood friend's husband told me that he and his gf had an abortion when they were young and that he still regretted it to this day. I think that abortions are fluffed up so that the women involved don't know the reality of what they really are. They need to see pictures, maybe even a video of a late term abortion. It would be a good thing for all women to see, then maybe they'd do something to PREVENT pregnancy and not have to deal with disposing of the unconvenient child later.

I think it's quite odd how it's okay if we kill an unborn child, even one that would survive outside the womb with just a little medical intervention, yet some parents get turned in for spanking their children. So we can kill our unborn, who have no voice, but sometimes the law frowns on any type of physical punishment - and I'm not talking about abuse either, so don't start with that. I'm talking about an ordinary every-day spanking that we've all had and all given to our children in order to set them straight when necessary.

Makes NO sense at all. Talk about unequality. Reply...

I gave you two examples of people that I know personally and I believe that I have proven my point.

 God does not discrimnate we are all going to die no matter what we will not escape death.

I know one person that died a terrible death it was friend of mine she had a hard life and turn to drugs to cope and it ended with her life that is about as real world example you can have.

 I did answer but not in the way you would of liked but you know what its ok to agree to disagree. I feel bad for the women that were abused and placed in a situation that they had not asked for....and on the flip side the ones that were not responsible were not educated properly enough about the decision they were making.

Your right it is up to the woman who makes the decision I am not disputing that. Like I stated before Roe vs. Wade she became a prolifer interesting isn't it. We all need something to believe in I have my religion and then again that is my positive choice just like anyone else. I did not say he deserved to die I am calling it karma. Do unto others like you would like done to you.

He choose this line of profession for himself he knew the risk that were involved with all the controversy. I stated this before one can go into any hospital you will see cardiac specialist...ob/gyn doctor...pediatric...xray technician etc...and on the directory you do not see abortion specialist....instead you find them in alleys or run down part of towns located near taverns....if it was such a respectable line of work why is it not located in the hospital.

Abortionist is a disgrace to the true doctors who save lives everyday and who deserve and earned the right to be called a doctor.

Reply...

Honestly, I do not fully understand the process of late term abortions.  From what I understand they are terminating a nearly fully developed human but if you were to go bach through my previous posts you will find NO mention of either late term abortions or me claiming to have any knowledge of them.  Our discussion was mainly on the stigma attatched to this doctor based on his profession, whitch is a legal and legitimate one. 

Rey- You really didnt answer my questions, I dont mean to sound crass but you didnt even approach it.  You continue still to cherry pick certain individuals situations because they assist your argument.  Thats horrible the nun you heard about was raped, great she had the compassoin to forgive.  My situations were hypothetical but I guarentee they happen.  What of them.  Does god just pick certain bad people to die while others live?  Why would him/her give the most descent person a horrible death while letting the worst go quietly in old age?  Really all I need to do is find one real world example of a good person dying a horrible death and I blow your argument to h e double hockey sticks.  I dont feel like doing that since i think you would agree it happens.  Please Reply to this and not tilt your answer as to make it appear as if you answered.

I feel bad for women who have had an abortion and lived the rest of their life with regret.  But you cant keep people from making bad choices cause where does it end.  No smoking, drinking, skydiving, riding atv and even Ice Fishing to name a few.  And currently it is legal for this decision to be made.  We both agree its a tragedy when a baby is aborted but where we differ is that I think that it is up to that individual to make that decision and no one else.  This doctor didnt coerce anyone.  When and If the day comes that Roe/Wade is overturned you will never hear me on any post arguing for abortions because I wont.  It would be fine with me.  But I dont look at the issue through  a cloudy glass of religion so I believe that it is a choice for the woman.  I am technically fine either way.  I absolutely cannot see saying this man deserved to die and I will never be convinced he did.  It was his job and he did choose his profession.  I dont think he was all like "Yeah, im gonna become an abortionist so I can murder all these infants" because he wasnt.  It was probably a good paying gig and he just happened to be on the opposite side of the issue in relation to you.  These women came to him, they made the choice, if there were no doctort to perform this legal procedure it would be done in back alleys and houses.

Reply...

By complicit, I mean that by not protesting these activities, I am just as guilty as they are. Kinda like walking down a street, seeing somebody being mugged, and instead of stopping to help, I look the other way. That's being complicit. Reply...

Aren't most late-term abortions done with the saline solution method? Where they inject a strong salt solution into the uterus, causing the fetus to thrash around in pain, sometimes for hours, while the salt eats away at their skin. The doctor is hoping the body will abort the baby, but sometimes that doesn't happen, so the baby is removed in pieces...while still alive in some cases. I've seen the pictures and it's hard to stomach....and even harder to know that such a horrific act is legal in this country. If the baby is born alive, it's allowed to lay by itself and die on its own. I read a newspaper article some time ago about an RN that took some trash down to the hospital basement. She found a live, moving, aborted baby laying on a pile of trash. This woman took it upon herself to sit down in that room and hold that baby in her arms until it died.

Like I said, hard to believe such a horrific act is legal in this country. It certainly is not legal in God's eyes and the people who perform these acts, regardless of the reasons, will stand before Him one day and have to explain themselves. Dr. T will be judged by God, that's not our job, but we sure don't  have to condone his actions throughout the years, and if we don't verbally protest what he did, then we are complicit. I won't be complicit. I also would not revere him as a fine, upstanding doctor. Ever heard of the hypocratic oath? 'First do no harm'........ Reply...

I believe the statement is true to everyone we do not get to pick and choose whom it applies to.

I am glad you used the story about the nun actually I heard a story quiet the same she tried to fight the man off and he raped her and she did forgive him. For every good there is evil.

Child molester if he was caught at least during some form of duration of his molesting more than likely spent sometime behind bars and paid for his crime in the sameway he inflicted.  Your family can be surrounding you in your final hour but that does not mean they agree with the act.

I for one can not dictate what a good life is for I have not lived one with challenges and mistakes that I have made just like so many of us.

I do remember things tthat might had led them to die in this manner I just lost my father and he was the one that stated it and he backed up this theory and it made sense. He worked with mentally challenged people here is one example a man he knew would tease the patients that were confined to a wheel chair and upset them.....and the latter part of his life what happen he became a diabetic and lost his feet and was in a wheelchair and guess who was teasing him and egging him on his own son the same way he did the helpless.

 Smote not familiar with the word or the meaning.

I had a girlfriend that did drugs when she was 14 she was in bad accident car on top of her and when she was in her late 20's she was in another car accident messed up on drugs again and what are the chances they found her dead with the car on top of her again.

 I disagree this man was no saint...and I can not respond on his character cause I did not know him and I would not take the time to if your ending someone's life....that would be like me hanging out with someone that is a murder and sugar coating him.

Reply...

Part One

 Your making some great points again Continent.

For me its not the argument that gets me...it would be like if you knew someone who was going to commit suicide I would try to help or prevent it and then at least I can honestly say I have tried...or maybe I saved that live.

I just wish that women had more respect for themselves that would not lead them to this. I am not familiar with genocide. This is one of the best conversations that I have had regarding this matter.

I did some reading last night on the after-effects of an abortion I was astonished to read how many women wished someone would of stopped them or how a spouse forced them into and relationship fizzles anyway. The biggest thing that really got to me is they wish they long for that child and are very repentive against their actions. One can tell by reading the stories you can almost feel for them. You said it again they live with the choice.

 Just to think drinking and driving is illegal wow but having abortion is not. Reason I used the drinking and driving as an example was for being responsible.

 I agree demand drives the market it started out as helping women that are abused now this service is being abused.

Reply...

I didnt know him, but I respect him.  He didnt let religous terrorist dictate the terms of his life.  He was the one in charge of his life, he is a marter.  If only more of us had his fortitude and resolve.  I dont respect him for performing abortions, I respect what I know of his character. Reply...